Today we have A/Prof Corey Tutt OAM on the show! Corey is here to talk about his role as CEO of Deadly Science.
He’s sharing his stories of good and bad advice he has received over his journey. If you’re trying to start something new but you’ve heard a lot of ‘no’ along the way then this episode is for you.
Here’s what we talk about.
- How Deadly Science started by Corey donating resources to regional and indigenous kids on his own
- Bad advice motivated him to do more, and good advice encouraged him to keep going
- Why he became comfortable with public speaking
- What his many accolades mean to him
- What might be next for him after Deadly Science
We also get into who is dream succession hire for the next CEO of Deadly Science would be.
The Lead Candidate tool kit
- The Deadly Science webpage features the programs on offer, all of Corey’s books, and ways to donate.
- Articles and profiles that inspired content here, here and here
- Podcast interview on Wiosophy with Will Anderson Part 1 and Part 2
- LinkedIn profile here
The Lead Candidate
Web: TheLeadCandidate.com X: @LeadCandidate Instagram: @theleadcandidate
Episode Transcript:
LeadCandidate_Ep23_CoreyTutt
Simona: Welcome back to The Lead Candidate for the final episode for 2023. This is a very special episode for me as it features a scientist who I have wanted to feature on this podcast since I started these interview. A Prof Corey Tutt is a very special leader. His life story has plenty of ups and downs but his ability to succeed and build the non for profit organisation Deadly Science is because he has a clear life mission. Corey is here make the world a better place. We touch on clear themes of perserveance, determination, having a clear why and succession plans in this episode. There’s a link in the show notes to Deadly Science if you’d like to make a donation to this really great cause.
[00:00:00] I am really excited about this next guest, Associate Professor Corey Tutte. Corey, welcome to The Lead Candidate.
Corey: Hey, thank you for having me. And we say in Gamilaroi language, Yama, which means hello. And it’s really great to join you. Thank you for having me.
Simona: Thank you so much for being here.
Corey has been on my wish list of people to interview on The Lead Candidate since, uh, my first year. So I’m really excited that I’m able to chat to you. As you said, you’re a Gamilaroi man. And you are. First and foremost, CEO and founder of Deadly Science. You’re also a newly appointed associate professor at Western Sydney Uni.
You’re a public speaker. You’re an author of multiple books. Your latest book is This Book Thinks You’re Deadly. And people might have heard of the first scientist as well, which is a award winning book to you’ve contributed for science magazines. You serve on multiple boards like the science and technology Australia.
And you’ve won multiple [00:01:00] awards, including New South Wales, Young Australian of the year in 2020, or even a human rights hero. For the Human Rights Awards as well. So you’re a pretty busy person, Corey. So I’m really glad that you’re able to take time to speak to me. The first question I ask people is, could you explain to me what it is that you do in your role as CEO and what it is that Deadly Science is trying to do?
Corey: So my role, it’s a really interesting question, actually, because my role can take up many different forms. It’s kind of like the Ditto roles which if you don’t understand that joke, then you don’t like Pokemon. That’s fine. But for me, it’s you know, I, I started off with my role as CEO, packing the boxes and books and telescopes and microscopes and wonderful STEM resources that we send off to Aboriginal. My day to day is really interesting these days because I often am meeting with schools, community elders connecting with corporates trying to build support behind Deadly Science [00:02:00] because Deadly Science has grown since the days I had a GoFundMe page and a second job and I was funding this charity.
On my own, we’ve now got staff who can help us, build the next generation of deadly scientists. And Deadly Science provides resources, mentoring pathways. We provide educational resources, advocacy for First Nations people in STEM and science. And we really encourage kids to find that love.
And we’ve got four main projects. So we’ve got Deadly Learners, which connects STEM professionals with remote schools from all over Australia, which I actually started whilst I was working at Matilda Centre in the University of Sydney as a research fellow. And that’s where we Zoom schools and we talk about our STEM and our science.
And then we’ve got the the resources, which is to providing, um, books and schools with all different sorts of things from books to lab kits to you name it. And then. Got deadly stem in schools, which is like deadly learners. We go out to schools and go and visit. We’ve also got deadly pathways program where a lot of our students that are interested in STEM can [00:03:00] get a like a job in STEM and a job in science.
And it’s just really important because it’s important to create those pathways. And yeah, from that, we’ve got the deadly labs project, which is the most exciting project as well, which is building culturally appropriate lab kits with community and elders, and we’re starting a juvenile justice version of that.
So we’re starting to get lab kits for juvenile justice centers, which is really great. Amazing.
Simona: What I love about this is it’s it’s such a slick and huge operation now. And I remember first following you on Twitter when you were a, um, working a job as a research assistant and doing this all off your own back, sending books and whatever resources you could raise money for yourself and taking it to the remote communities.
To see where you’ve gotten to in really a pretty short space of time is pretty amazing. So before we move into all that, let’s talk about how you got to the point, this point where [00:04:00] you are now, and we’ll go right back to where you born a leader or have you become one over the course
Corey: of your career.
Well, no, I wasn’t born a leader at all. I think that for me, it comes from a place like, when I sort of finished school and I started working in the zoos. It was really hard for me because I was pretty shy kid. I had a lot of confidence issues. And you know, like stemming from not thinking I was good enough or smart enough and when I was at the zoo, I had a headkeeper that was, he was pretty mean to me at times.
He would pull like koala poo on my raking and say rake it properly. And he, I found it really hard because he was kind of that personality that, thought that he was bigger and better and everyone else. And that, like that really sat with me in a negative way at the time.
I really didn’t like him. And I don’t think he liked me very much. And then don’t blame me for not liking him. I mean, but it really pushed me like I, I just wanted to be better [00:05:00] than him in every facet and I made me a really good zookeeper because I just, I couldn’t handle his comments. Like they’re constant.
And I just, it really bothered me that you know, this guy wasn’t even giving me a chance when I just started there. And then I just yeah, I, I grew and grew and grew. And then I basically started you know, when I, when I left there and I did cheering again, I was a pretty quiet kid.
I was doing my thing. And, um, I ended up getting hit in the face by an alpaca. It was named Pikachu, which is a masculine name, no Pokemon joke. Look at me. Wow. But you know, It, there was something about being with someone like James Dixon who really, he really invested in me as a person. He saw something in me that probably no one had seen before, which is, a knowledge, a talent, like a, you know, a want.
And as I got older, I started to experience things and,[00:06:00] some of it felt like I’d already been through it before. So like my life experience. You know, I’d witnessed death at a young age trauma. So when I came to work with RSPCA, I was obviously dealing with a lot of deaths of animals at the shelter.
That’s really hard to deal with, but it was kind of like for me, you know, it really did affect me, but then I’d already, you know, witnessed the death when I was really young of each person. So it kind of like, people tended to lean on me for experience and like, and just as a friend.
And that’s when I kind of developed into a bit of a leader because, you know, we’re all in this really hectic situation, working in this animal shelter, seeing the very worst of humanity and the best at the same time for the veterinary industry and a lot of animal industry that, the rates of.
Mental health and suicide are just astronomical and no one really talks about it, especially with vets and vet nurses and animal attendants. And we lost a few colleagues as well at the [00:07:00] time. And you know, I really, I really grew to love my team when, and I, even though I wasn’t really a leader there, I really grew to love my colleagues.
And from there, when I did be going to management. I never lost that. So I continued to, you know, just love my team and really make my team feel wanted. And it’s something that I’ve inherited with Deadly Science now.
Simona: I love that. There’s, there’s a lot to unpack and explain. So your science is the love of animals.
That’s a common thing for you growing up. You just really loved being around animals and that’s what led you to wanting to become a zookeeper. You had a stint where you’re working on a, the alpaca farm shearing which you briefly touched on before you moved into the RSPCA and animal technicians side of things at university of
Corey: Sydney, right?
Yeah. So I, and the alpaca, it wasn’t just an alpaca farm owner. I’m Australian. It’s one. So that’s right. That’s right. To speak to a man in the car for 12 hours. And [00:08:00] you know, I’ve had such a varied career and I guess, My, my career has been interesting, but it’s also mimicked my childhood a little bit because my childhood I moved around a lot.
So I never really stayed in one place for too long and. When I was working as an animal technician, as a zoo keeper, and even as a shearer, once I learn everything I can learn, I would look for the next challenge. And I was really challenged by what I, of what I couldn’t understand or couldn’t do.
For me, it’s like. You know, I, those experiences have just molded deadly science into what it is today. And what I am today, because, when you’re sharing and you’re spending all the time traveling and you’re seeing all these parts of Australia, you’re seeing all these like people like crazy people, right?
Like, I remember when I was sharing, I She had this lady up in Mudgee and she was crazy, like legitimately crazy. And I remember I had these jeans [00:09:00] on and I’d like pull them up to my belly button and she was like, pull your pants up, pull your pants up. And she threatened me with a bailing hook and said, if you don’t pull your pants up, I’m going to hit you with this.
And crazy stuff like that just would happen. You know, things that like you would read about in fictional books would happen um, random thunderstorms, snakes going for the shearing shed. Um, you know, just cars breaking down. I remember once I had a, like I had the flu pretty bad and I was getting really sick and then we’re driving out for Yas in the central Tablelands.
And it was still quite cold. I think it was like late, early, late August, early September. So it was freezing. It’s like nearly below freezing and a heater broke in a car. And it just didn’t, it didn’t work. And I was like freezing to death and I was like on my deathbed pretty much. The, before the day of my sister’s wedding, we’re down in Melbourne.
And the, the cable in the car, the, [00:10:00] um. The timing belt snapped completely snapped, and we’re using phone lights to put this, um, this new cable on, uh, and we’re just driving in the middle of the night just to get back for this wedding in Wollongong, and I, you know, I’m covered in an alpaca spit, I didn’t even shower for my sister’s wedding, I didn’t have to, uh, covered in alpaca spit and blood, chucked my suit on I must have spelt horrendous that day, it was like the first, Bye bye.
It was 35 degrees, but these are the stories that shape us, you know, these are the stories that make us us and, sharing saved my life, really. Yeah.
Simona: Um, just, before we go into it too too much, tenacity and grit seem to be quite important for your story, just from, what I’ve read and learned about how you’ve managed to get Deadly Science going, all the noise that you’ve had to, you’ve had to receive before turning them into yeses and that sort of thing. It makes so much sense [00:11:00] when you hear these sorts of stories are happening in the background beforehand that you have a lot of tenacity and grit if you had to deal with this sort of stuff. It was really interesting to hear you touch on a couple of things.
Mentorship seems to be a very important part of your story, both bad examples of mentorship. So you touched on the zookeeper who wasn’t particularly nice to you. But also you wanted to become a zookeeper in school but you got told in, in like, was it like year 10 of high school that. Yeah you need to go to uni.
This isn’t going to work for you. Don’t basically don’t bother, which is example of really bad mentorship. But then you’ve had some really great examples of well, as well, like you got into a mentoring program that allowed you to get into the vocational training, which is in Australia, we call TAFE that led you to be able to qualify to become a zookeeper.
And you’ve spoken about your mentor from the, your alpaca shearing days as [00:12:00] well, and how important he’s been for your mentorship too. So my question is what have the combination of bad versus good experiences. Can you cite an example for both of things you’ve taken away and how you use them now?
Corey: I’ll start with the bad. Cause you know, everyone wants, you got to end on a positive. That’s the main thing to me. And When I was younger, I was constantly told I was worthless and, you know, that you get to a point where when you’re told you’re worthless so much that you’re either going to believe it or you’re going to fight it.
And for me, you know, fighting became really natural for me because my pop who is from Walga was really big on me being proud of being an Aboriginal man and who I am like, and, a lot of my childhood was negative, like, to be honest. But you learn to find the positives in the [00:13:00] negative and there’s a lot of shade.
Um, there’s a lot of shade, but there’s also a lot of light and there’s a lot of moments where you take that, my older sister and I particularly close, we spent a lot of our childhood together. We had a weird like sibling relationship because she was my older sister and she cooked dinner for me and like.
Did a lot for me as a young person. And, along the way. I’ve had some really great mentors, like my life would be so much different if I hadn’t have, met Norma and Jim McGee when I was, when I was 16, I was a young Aboriginal kid from DAPTO, a 16 year old kid that 40 knew everything I didn’t even know how to put toast in the toaster, um, didn’t know how to make my bed, didn’t even know how to read a bus timetable, um, and then, all of a sudden these Two non Indigenous people take me in after I’ve missed the bus to Woiaprook to go to Rewgully.
And you know, I, I wouldn’t be where I am without them [00:14:00] because they taught me so much in such a small period of time. And, when Norma spends the next 10 years after that of her life messaging me every week. Saying what are you up to? I’m so proud of you. I love watching your life, like how it’s unfolding and even in the bad times, like I tell her that, you know, I’m, I’m feeling pretty crummy that you don’t want to tell her the bad times because this person is so positive and I’m very lucky to have that.
And then, I am working in an animal shelter and I make a decision that I want to make. I want to better my life a bit more. And yeah. Get myself a bit of a career. And I meet my wife who who, I’m a dumb male who asks me out you know, you can’t even write that stuff. Like, even, you know, my wife has worked so hard on I’ve had to unlearn, like, pretty much everything from that point.
And, I call myself the classic unlearner. I’ve had to unlearn. You know what behaviors are [00:15:00] appropriate. What isn’t appropriate? I had to unlearn how to, how to I’ve always been a good person, but I’ve had to unlearn a lot of behaviors that. pRobably would have not, I wouldn’t end up in jail or nothing, but it would have made me disliked by a lot of people.
Like, because that’s how I grew up and that’s how the people that I grew up with were like, so, you know, being a classic unlearner and having to unlearn all that is really difficult. And then, and sometimes it involves critical self reflection and that’s different to self loathing. It’s um, for example when I first met my wife, I.
I drank a lot of soft drinks a lot of soft drink you and then now I, I stopped drinking soft drink because mainly because it was my choice and I wanted to get a bit healthier, but then I go back home to where I grew up and there is fast food outlets. You know, everywhere, like they cut up the stretch of road where I spent like a majority of my [00:16:00] childhood where it used to be green paddocks once upon a time.
And now there’s, I think there’s something like 17 burger chains or fast food chains just on that one stretch of road. That’s crazy. You start to see this stuff for what it is. And it’s. Like you have to unlearn, you have to unlearn all that behavior and there’s some people that, that don’t get that opportunity.
So I’m very lucky, um, that I’ve had that opportunity to unlearn that. And my wife has, has taught me, what love is and. You know, I had very good lessons of that from my grandfather that I probably ignored when I was young, like my granddad, when his wife died, my grandmother died, he drove her body all the way from Armidale down to Croydon, Victoria, so northern New South Wales, all the way down to Croydon, Victoria, because he wanted her buried on country with her family, and he rented a hearse and drove her body all the way there, and I think, that was the 80s, right?
I think back to that time, and I’m like, he must have went through hell driving that far, and for me, it’s a, [00:17:00] it’s such a big, like, I, I asked myself the question now would I do that for my wife? And I’m like, yes, of course I would. And that’s what love, and I’m very lucky that I’ve had those experiences because if I didn’t have those experiences, then, you know, I wouldn’t appreciate deadly science.
I probably wouldn’t appreciate all these young kids that are just You know, they make me smile and they give me a reason why, you know, like, I had this one kid who was up in, uh, Northern Territory and she was in a wheelchair and she just want to look for a telescope and I thought, me who, I, like, I honestly feel sometimes if you put your mind to it, you can achieve anything and I, I really mean that, like Most people, if they really tried, they can achieve most things in life, um, and I think for me, I’ve always had that, that belief that if I tried my best and if it didn’t come off, I’ve tried my best and I can hold my head up high, but if I try my best it’s probably going to come off at some point.[00:18:00]
So, for me with this kid, I, I tried my best. I tried to find her a telescope and. To be honest, I couldn’t do it in the end because I was quoted 40 grand for an experimental telescope. Sorry. And I emailed Elon Musk. I’d had some success with Brian Cox and Dr. Carl, but this kid didn’t get that telescope.
She didn’t get that opportunity, but I did the next best thing and I got this light projector and I projected these galaxy things around her and it kind of like, the smile on that kid’s face meant everything to me because it was, you know, this was. A combination of, and selfishly it was a combination of my life and being told I couldn’t do stuff.
And then all of a sudden we’re able to say yes, you can to this kid that’s been, just treated like, like, not treated like crap because obviously people love it because she had a disability, but. jUst told that she couldn’t do things because of a disability like it bothered me. It [00:19:00] still bothers me.
And then, you know, we remain, we maintain this relationship, this friendship, me and this kid and, and my wife as well. And we sent her Christmas presents every year and. Did the odd video and stuff to the care and the care has changed. They came and go. They came and went. Um, and, you know, I don’t know if all the presence got there, but then one day we sent a present up to her and we got this letter back saying she’d passed and and for me that that’s a sad thing, but I’m also like.
It’s that point again, like I tried my best and I, and not only did I give this kid something to smile about deadly science, I, I got gifted a why why I do this and, and, you know, there’s multiple whys. But sometimes you just need a reason and a strong reason and that’s why I do what I do.
Amazing.
Simona: That’s heavy, Corey, but I love it. while you’re speaking there, just watching your [00:20:00] face light up when you first start talking about the kids and how you make a difference. It’s really. Powerful. And you can see your passion. And when you hear, obviously with every like ying, there’s a yang.
So with all the passion and the love, there’s obviously like a really heavy, sad part of it, but they go together. And I think you illustrated that really beautifully. So I thank you for sharing all of that
Corey: in general, right? Like you have. You have the bad, the good, and the ugly, and really, the bad is never as bad as what it seems, and I think that I’ve learned that as a, I’m a 30 year old man now and I’ve learned that, You know, I don’t know if it’s because I’m desensitized to it or like, um, maybe I’ve like, I’ve just grown a bit older and probably didn’t used to be able to handle stress nearly as well as probably what I do now.
But I, I think with the with life and stuff now, something bad will [00:21:00] happen, like we’re unfortunate, we won’t get that grant, that partner says they don’t have money to partner with us, or we kind of, you know, things that we’re like, oh no, that’s really bad I don’t necessarily get overawed by it now, like I don’t, it doesn’t, it doesn’t ruin my life if it, if there’s a no, it’s, we’ll find a way and that’s kind of how I feel about life and, and in general now, it’s I, you know, I have overwhelming forms of sadness personally when, I suffer personal loss or, or a family member dies or something like that.
But, you know, the strength is that. You can be sad, but we’ll find a way. And you just got to continue trying your best with life. And if you don’t try your best, then, it’s, it’s really hard because, for some people that try their best in it and it isn’t good enough because society doesn’t allow it to be good enough, but there’s so many good things in this world that we just don’t share the light on.
Simona: Yeah. I think that’s really fair. trYing your [00:22:00] best is, I think it’s something that’s. It’s underrated, just valuing the fact that you’ve tried your best. And yeah, I just, I find it interesting to think about how you started deadly science and it really was you trying your best to make a difference.
And obviously it’s growing to be this massive thing. So I was wondering if you could go back and describe, you said you was when you’re at the RSPCA, you decided you wanted to do something with your life. So where did the idea of. It probably wasn’t called deadly science when you first thought of it, but where did the what did the initial idea look like?
Where did it start?
Corey: Yeah. Um, I’ve always kind of let even from my zoo days, I always used to let Aboriginal kids into the zoo and do like unofficial reptile shows and stuff. So I’ve always kind of done a version of deadly science. But for me, it really became an idea, like I was, it was 2017 and I, I actually was playing rugby at the time and I decided that I was going to [00:23:00] sponsor a rugby team in Fiji so these guys were playing around with no boots and I just decided to pack up a bunch of boots and collect the boots of my teammates and send them off to this Place in Fiji that I’ve never been to, but the people are really nice.
They’ve come to visit me a couple of times, you know, we end up donating our jerseys to these guys and they end up having this team. And they call themselves the Decreti Stags for a bit. And cause we were the stags in Sydney and, um, it was really cool. Like I, I enjoyed it. So that was like my first sort of foray into the postage system and how expensive it was.
BuT then I was working in the lab and I just, you know, I just didn’t feel fulfilled you know, I saw so many rodents and things in the lab and it was kind of like, I’ve seen pretty much every mouse that, is in medical research, um, and I, I’ve seen them all, but I still love the job.
I still absolutely loved it. But. The [00:24:00] hard thing for me was like, um, at the time it was probably like the end of 2017. My relationship had broken down with my wife. Um, you know, she had, she had said you know, the stress of her PhD had got to her and then my probably lack of probably lack of motivation to, to go and do my own thing for a bit, you know?
And. You know, it was a really good learning curve because I think it was really great for me because I went to Canada, um, but before that I’d started doing these talks back end of 17. Um, with these indigenous kids up in Redfern, and I’ve just talked to them and talked to them about science, talked to them about, all different sorts of things.
Um, yeah and we were really, the kids just loved it. We had such a strong rapport and it was about 2018 and my wife and I, like, broken up for a month, so it doesn’t really count. So, we got back together and then I started sending these, I found a school with 15 books, this entire school and I [00:25:00] just was really, gobsmacked because I, I just thought the kids deserve books.
They all just deserve books. And if they don’t have books and I can change that. That’s something I can change. That’s a tangible thing I can change. I might not be able to close the gap by myself, but. I could change the fact that these kids don’t have books by simply going to the bookshop and buying some books and sending them off and there’s 1, 000 I dropped because like bit silly, no financial literacy in that, but I ended up,
Simona: um, generosity game, strong financial literacy, not
Corey: so much, but I ended up getting a second job, um, and working at a pet hotel at night and, My wife, I didn’t really tell my wife about it at the time.
I wasn’t really good at publicizing it, but my, um, my wife thought that I had a gambling habit because I all of a sudden just had no money in the night. I was working two jobs and, you know, she just, she said to me, she just Come out and say, what are you doing? And I said that, um, [00:26:00] actually I’m sending books to all these indigenous kids in remote communities that have been doing it for months.
And, it became much more than that. Cause I started buying the odd telescope. Um, then I started to GoFundMe page and the GoFundMe page, you know, started putting on Twitter. Like you said, I was doing it for about six months. I was going broke. Like I was like, I was considering getting a personal loan just to pay for the books.
Because I just didn’t want to give up because again, there’s so many schools out there that just had nothing or like kids that just need a bit of inspiration, you know, um, so I just kept going. And then I got a research fellowship at Matilda Center where I started studying, um, ice and crystal methamphetamine, how it affects our communities.
And that’s how I started getting into the research side of things. And I um, I dealt with a bit of racism whilst I was in animal tech, um, which was pretty horrible, but. Yeah. Uh, it was it was because deadly science was starting to kick off a little bit. I was starting to do regular [00:27:00] science gig on FBI radio.
I was starting to do those deadly learner sessions from inside the lab and. Um, it became much more than what I’d realized, um, we raised 33, 000 in not very long I drew a logo in a pub on a napkin and my cousin fixed it up for me and, and that became the deadly science logo. Then I put it. On a black shirt, um, and started saying to people like donate 30 or more and you get this deadly science shirt and, you know, raises money to send resources to communities that need it.
And you know, people started really getting behind it and it was really great. And but to be honest, it was a bit overwhelming. And when people read out my bio and stuff, I get a bit overwhelmed because it’s like. Again, it’s that unlearning thing. Um, the only time I really got encouragement as a kid was, um, on the 40 field when I was scoring tries or, you know, getting a, you get a big Mac.
Voucher [00:28:00] when he scored it, man, the match awarded, that was about it, and, and for me, um, it’s the unlearning thing, you’ve had to unlearn and you’ve had to learn how to be, humble and gracious and, and, when people nominate you for things, you’ve got to be ready to take it, but understand that it’s a responsibility and it’s a responsibility to the kids that look up to you and, um, the people that, put you there so for me, I wasn’t ready when I won the Young Australian of New South Wales mentally was not ready for it.
I don’t think anyone ever is, but, um, from my experience, it was something completely different for me. You know, I had got this email saying I’d been nominated for young Australian of the year. Um, then it became a, it became a thing where I was like, yeah, I’m going and God’s bring my mom along.
God’s bring my sister. God’s bring my mom and my wife along. And Gladys Berejiklian, um, read my name out and said, you’re young Australian of the year. And then after that, I had a camera in my face and I’d never had a camera in my [00:29:00] face before. Speak about this thing I’m doing, which I had been putting on Twitter and, and stuff.
And all I could say is just be kind to your mom.. That was the only thing I could say. And yeah, I’ve come a long way since then. I’m really proud of where I’ve come from because it’s like, just be able to speak on a podcast and to be able to do all this media, people think I’m quite good at it, but actually it doesn’t come naturally to me at all.
Had to work on myself and unlearn things to, to actually be proud enough to accept that award and that honor. Um, I didn’t do it for the awards. I’ve never done it for the awards. I do it because our kids need resources and. I saw a need and I decided to do something about it. And you can do stuff about it.
There’s something that’s wrong in society, we can do something about it. Um, I don’t think there’s ever a problem that we can’t solve, you know?
Simona: Totally. There’s so much to unpack in what you just said. It’s wonderful., it definitely shows that you’ve improved with your public speaking then because you just, but [00:30:00] it just seems, it does seem really natural for you that you just, you tell, you just tell your story and you just share it.
So it’s really great to see, to hear you say that is something you struggled with. Um, Because then there are other people who might struggle with it now, similar sorts of things, maybe not to the same level, but that they can actually get better at it. So I think that’s a great example. Were you quite relieved then that you didn’t, you came, what was the saying, everyone comes second to the person who wins young Australian of the year?
Cause that was Ash Barty who won your year. Were you quite relieved then?
Corey: Yeah, look yeah, I was actually in hindsight you think, with these awards and stuff that you think you’re a chance, but when you come up against an absolute superstar, like tennis grade, like that, you know, chance, but for me yeah, wasn’t ready to be young Australian of the year.
Um, it wasn’t, it wasn’t saying that I think that I handled very well at the time in the sense of like. [00:31:00] Love Ash, love, all the other people, but I struggled with the, you’ve got all these eight people here. Yes, you’ve celebrated them, but I think that these people are amazing. They should be held in the highest regard, like think from my year, um, all the people that won the state ones, we became really good mates.
We, we got along really well, You know, we were connected on a level of humanity. Like we’re good people trying to change the world in our own ways. And to be honest, I was like, I was a bit bitter about it for a while. Not, not the, not the fact that I didn’t win, but the fact that we have this night that celebrates all Australians and celebrates these amazing people.
And then we kind of just forget about them after that night and. And I don’t think we should do that. I think we should really do more to celebrate these people. Um, and where they come from. I think I remember Uncle Archie Roach, who was nominated at the [00:32:00] time. And, you know, I love, I love the Australian of the Year Awards.
I think it’s really great. I think they do a really good job. You know, if I was part of it again, I would be honored, but I think that hopefully in the future we, we should be honoring, um, Uncle Archie Roach and all those amazing people that were nominated. Um, Just to be a state winner is huge.
Just to be nominated is massive. Totally. It’s a big deal, but we can’t forget about those people who have been nominated. We can’t forget about those state winners. Can’t forget about those national winners, too. And I feel like Grace Tame and Dylan Alcott and all these amazing people who have been Australians of the year since have really given it more life than probably what it had before, but I think we can do better as a country with celebrating our amazing people.
And there’s so many for every person that’s nominated and that’s lucky enough to get that award, there’s a thousand other people that deserve it. Or two thousand other people that deserve it. Yeah, [00:33:00] totally
Simona: agree with that. Yeah. Like to choose one person is crazy, isn’t it? To say, yeah, because obviously everyone who, and, and just within the state winners as well, there’ll be people who are nominated, who have all done amazing things.
And it’s just a thing of opinion that one might win it over the other, like it would be so impossible to measure. Um, but yeah, it’s, yeah,
Corey: it’s pretty crazy. It’s such a, like, it’s such a thing, right? Bye. I went through a stage where I was getting a lot of love on social media, then to a stage where, quite prominent people were like, he only cares about his awards.
He only cares about winning. It’s like, I’ve never been about winning awards at all. And actually, I get embarrassed by it a little bit because, awards are, awards are given for hard work, you have to work hard for them. And. They’re not a be all and end all, um, of my existence, they’re great.
And I, I love the fact [00:34:00] that people acknowledge me in that way. Totally grateful, it’s, uh, the accolades, their responsibility, their responsibility to make sure that’s accessible to every single Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander kid in this country that is sitting there in a remote community and wondering if they can dream big and imagine what if, and it’s.
For me, when I go to community, I bring my awards out so those kids can see them and they can see me in the flesh, say that I’m not a perfect human. I’m just a dude from that though, that, you know, tried to, as tried to create something good and great for them. And, and hopefully one day one of those kids becomes the CEO of deadly science and it grows more legs and it just grows off and I can sit in the sunset and watch that’s the goal.
Right. Um, so for me, it’s like. I really just, I really want our kids just see unachievable. I grew up in a place called Dapton, my family from [00:35:00] Walgard, born in Narra. You know, I come from a single parents and I have a step sister, the oldest step sister is my sister, I don’t come from money, I don’t come from a private school, I don’t come from, I’m not highly educated, I’ve had to learn all this stuff, unlearn all this stuff and learn again, um, I’ve had trips, I’ve had falls, broken bones, And you know, you make mistakes and I want these young kids to say that no road is perfect.
It’s not going to be smooth. It’s going to be road bumps along the way. And, and no matter where you go, as long as you’re a good person, you can get through it. I love
Simona: that. I Think it’s really important to mention, I think the stat goes that, uh, 0. 5 percent of, uh, Australians, uh, Indigenous Australians, uh, in a STEM profession.
Is that what the studies and versus 5 percent is that what the stat is that how the stat goes? [00:36:00] Corey? Yeah.
Corey: Um, so we make up 4 percent of the Australian population. We make up zero, I think 4. 2 percent of the STEM workforce in this country. Um, And it’s just simply not high enough. And I think, when, when we reflect on Aboriginal people and especially my mob as well, Gamilaraay mob, I can speak for my mob, but, you know, we’re the first scientists of this country.
We, we have a long history with technology and science and engineering and mathematics, um, from fish traps to canoes, when I always laugh when racists say like, Oh, you know, you guys didn’t invent the wheel. Or you know, they make jokes about us having like clapsticks and things like that.
It’s it shows how primitive those people are because, within the same nation, you have salt water and fresh water. And some of the canoes and the boats are completely different design to environment. Which shows a high degree of [00:37:00] engineering to understand the salinity of saltwater. There is certain plants that desalinate water on the coast of Bundjalung country and Biripi country.
And that was used to turn sea water into fresh drinking water. There is a lot of this stuff around the nation that is very advanced. We were an advanced culture, you know, there’s no doubting that. We have 500 different language groups and even now in Australia, we have a place called Meningrida who has, there’s 17 different languages spoken in Meningrida, which makes it the most linguistically diverse place on earth.
Crazy. So for me, it’s like, it does not make sense. Why we discourage indigenous kids from STEM, when we have such a proud, long history of science in this country, and we have some of the most incredible scientists that have existed, like Devi and Ipon before that, even, you know, even [00:38:00] indigenous people that we celebrate say Brangaroo, like Brangaroo would have done science, social science, you know, it’s all around us.
And every, and every person, everywhere you’ve stood on this continent, there is someone that is scared of the stars, used it for navigation, maybe they’ve created a tool to, to humanely kill a wallaby or a kangaroo and skin it and eat it and, yes, you can say it’s survival, but there’s a complex range of thought that goes into that there’s like methodical thought that goes into that.
Even my grandfather, he had so much of a knowledge on life and wildlife. You know, I inherited that off him. Like, that’s the one thing I inherited off him is my knowledge on wildlife. And that comes from a brain that wants to understand and ask questions. And kids are the best scientists because they ask the best questions.
I love that.
Simona: I think I love what you’ve just said and and the reasoning for it. It’s just so important. All these awards have been [00:39:00] great because they lift your profile. So you’re helping kids see that they can be something that they perhaps haven’t seen before, but is naturally just within them anyway, which I think is so important and so wonderful to encourage.
There’s a bit of fact behind the, the passion that you’ve got for helping to encourage these kids. At what point did you realize that this thing that you were doing of packing up and sending resources yourself has suddenly become a business in its own right? Like what was, what did that look like?
Was it more stopping and realizing, wow, this thing has gotten bigger than I expected or was it? More like a yeah, you knew it for a while and it was just time to make a
Corey: call. I’ve kind of known it for a while. Um, I guess the, actually recently it was probably probably about last year was I [00:40:00] no, earlier this year, sorry, earlier this year, 2023 was a moment for me that I realized that And I guess I, I obviously had some stuff before that, but I realized the power of what deadly science can do for a person, um, as well as a professional not just the kids, it was more, the job itself and the platform the brand, the everything that goes in it. And that was we hired a young indigenous girl up in where I live in Port Macquarie. And, she didn’t have much on her resume in terms of experience, but we gave her a. A job and, like within a couple of weeks, she’s using complex CRM, sorting out, uh, like handling the postage and packing all these resources and using complex systems to send it all off and, using software and things that she probably wouldn’t have used before. And I was able to take her to Darwin, you know, for the first time, we’ll go out to schools and she just took to a deduct to water.
And most people probably wouldn’t have given the [00:41:00] person like that an opportunity, but we did because we, we recruited on good people first. And the rest we can teach later. And, you know, I love that. That’s awesome. Yeah. When when a son found out that she was going to be working for deadly science, he cried and said he was so proud of his mom and.
For me, like, that’s a really big deal for me, I as a founder that’s what you want you want people to be proud to work for you and their kids to be even prouder to hear her kid cry and say, Mum, I’m so proud of you, like, it’s such a, such a big deal for me and I’m very lucky to have that, I think that not many people, not many businesses get to have that, not many charities get to have that, but I’ve got that because, I’ve built but now it’s not mine, it’s the staffs, it’s the supporters, it’s the communities.
So this thing that I created really, I want to build sustainability into it. So we have our [00:42:00] staff for 10, 20 years, but I also realized that at some point I’ve got an end point with that. And. I’m getting to the point where I want to get young indigenous people into my charity and I want to give them the opportunities that I’ve had and, and create the platform so that they can start their own psych on careers or whatever they want to do.
They can do it. They can get the skills. And if that means I have to step aside out of that, out of that attention, well, I’m like, it’s probably fine by me, but I can give some of them the opportunities and that’s a job well served. And I think that that’s when my job will really be done when this thing is fully sustainable, giving young indigenous kids the opportunity to support their mob and be part of something that’s bigger than themselves.
And that can be a platform for them to grow as well. Awesome.
Simona: I love it. Yeah. Just hear you starting to mention, you’ve said it a couple of times that you’d love first off for someone one of your deadly scientists to become [00:43:00] CEO one day. I’ve seen you say that before as well. So that’s obviously something that’s a passion of yours talking about one day being able to step back and hopefully you can start to do it now.
I know you’ve done the science communication thing. And from what it seems is like the main driver is to increase the profile of deadly science. So, have you thought about, of all the things that you do, the writing the books, the doing science communication, going on podcasts, helping bring resources, all that stuff, which part of it is then for, for you, like what gives, what brings you the most joy and what can you see your, you still doing once you do step away from deadly science?
If you stepped away from Deadly
Corey: Sight? Very tough question. Um, yeah. I mean, I don’t know. Probably go on Centrelink for a bit. No look, [00:44:00] I envision I’ll constantly write books. I really enjoy writing. Um, I write the books that I wish I had when I was young. So, for me the motivation behind my books is that I was sending so many STEM books out to community, but there was never one that was a Blackfella STEM book, and I wrote The First Scientist for that reason.
In the same way I’m writing my new book, the rep, this caution, this book contains deadly reptiles. There’s never a black fellow reptile book. And I would have loved that as a kid. Would have really, it would have driven me probably even further and earlier than then I thought then, then I I think as well There’s other books as well.
Like this book thinks you deadly. Like I, I loved watching Kathy Freeman as a kid. I love Nathan Blacklock. I love Anthony Mundine. I loved Owen Craig as well, all these amazing indigenous athletes and people that I saw on my TV. Ernie Dingo. I loved Ernie Dingo. Um, and. [00:45:00] I just wish I got to read about them when I was young.
You know, I, I created this book, Minksy Deadly, cause I, I wanted kids to read about amazing Aboriginal people and Torres Strait Islander people. And, um, I want to celebrate them too. Like they hadn’t been celebrated before. And the same will be for my future books is like, what ideas do I think that.
You know, if I put myself into the mind of a kid or a person or the reader, what books could I create that will give them the opportunity to I guess. You know, like, I, I guess what would give these kids the opportunity to find passion and that’s what I do. And then, from writing those books and publishing them, I’ve had so many great memories, like mums ring me or send me an email or stop me in the street.
Even dads, thank you for giving my kid this book, it’s, it’s really giving my kid a reason to smile. It’s giving my kids a kid, a reason to love first nation science. YoU know, the accolades will dry up. People lose interest in, in what I do eventually, once I get [00:46:00] used to it. But you know, those memories will live with me forever.
And I hope they live with those people forever as well. No, that’s awesome.
Simona: I love it. I do have three quick questions, uh, that I finished the podcast with. Before I get to those, there’s just one more that I want to ask. So you’ve only recently been. Uh, given the title of associate professor, and I know that as you were trying to set up deadly science, that the, your limited qualification was something that held people back.
So given that you don’t necessarily feel comfortable with accolades and, but balancing the whole people telling you no, because you don’t have the right qualification, how does that make you feel now, like sitting with that now?
Corey: That’s pretty special. I’ve, since then, since those times, I’ve, I’ve actually got qualifications now and in terms of experience and [00:47:00] writing and things like that.
And and I think that, for what I was doing, I didn’t need a PhD. I’d do the right thing. You know, I was trying to get kids access to STEM and Never really set out to be a role model or anything like that. I just wanted kids to enjoy books and, and my experience alone, like I’ve worked in STEM for 10 plus years.
I’ve worked in labs, I’ve worked in research. And I’ve been part of massive projects. Um, like to be honoured in this way is really humbling. Um, but I’ve also made a huge commitment to Indigenous STEM in this country. Deadly science is probably going to be the reason why in the next five to 10 years, we have a huge influx of Indigenous students going into engineering and STEM.
Western Sydney Uni sees that they see. The work that’s gone in the years and years of research, the years and years of like [00:48:00] building relationships, the books I’ve created that. Have created a new generation of really deadly kids that love science and they’ve honored in this way because they understand that one, I’ve got industry experience, but also I’ve got the combination of now working that field for such a long time and having this success.
So, yeah, I, I, like, for me, it’s a, it’s an honor, but the job still continues, and hopefully, hopefully with this honor that I can, inspire small kids. I love it.
Simona: I can’t wait to see that report to see how many more indigenous then kids now adults are in STEM professions. It’s going to be, yeah, I’m really excited to see it.
It’s definitely
Corey: going to have an impact. If I had a dollar for every kid now that tells me that, you know, I want to be a scientist because of you, Corey I wouldn’t ask for funding or donations because I get that every day. Like, I got that just earlier you know, family came around to the warehouse and I gave them a bit of Lego and, this kid’s I really want to be [00:49:00] a scientist one day and I’m like, go for it, do it.
And you don’t necessarily have to get a degree to work in STEM. You can actually get TAFE qualifications. Doesn’t mean you’re any less stupid or anything like that. Um, you can actually work your way up for uni as well and do some uni courses. There’s so many things you can do. Um, I’ve actually done uni courses whilst working at the uni.
Um, so it, it is what it is. You can, you can do, you can take many roads into STEM. Yeah,
Simona: I think that’s so important. That’s such an important message there. Yeah, not, it’s not just one pathway. There’s multiple pathways to lead you to where it is that we want to go. Um, okay. So my closing questions that I ask everyone, the first one is who do you, or who have you learned the most from about leadership?
Corey: Um, tough question. I’d probably say, again, it’s the unlearning thing, right? I’ve had to unlearn a lot of behaviors, but I learned a lot from my granddad. I learned a lot from people like Aunty Deb Walford. I’ve learned a lot from [00:50:00] Aunty Aunty Beryl Vannopolo who’s down in Redfern. I’ve learned so many different things from so many different people.
Um, mainly my elders, but also, other incredible Indigenous people doing similar work. I think, yeah, there’s no limitation of how many you know, people I learn off every day. Yeah, I I, I learn so much. And I guess, you know, when you learn, you. You just continue to, um, just continue to keep learning this is heaps people inspire me all the time.
Um, just to give you an example there’s a young girl up here in port. Her name’s, um, Jasmine Ferguson and she’s a para Matilda and she’s she also does running as well. And, um, she. Just inspires me so much because, she, she has a disability but she keeps running, you know, um, she keeps running at night.
She keeps going and I really, I really love Jasmine. She’s such an inspiration and Kathy Freeman even FaceTimed up because [00:51:00] that’s how inspiring she is. And people like that really motivate me, I think. There’s so many different just incredible people out there. I love it.
Simona: What are you grateful for that being a leader has provided?
Corey: It’s provided me with the opportunity to to learn more about myself and, and give to others. Like I, I love the fact that I can give to other people. It’s, um, it means a lot to me. I love it. That’s
Simona: perfect. And what would you want to achieve to feel like a
Corey: successful leader? Um. Yeah, succession. I mean, if you can build something that you can pass on to someone else, then it’s a, that’s a success, you’ve done something, you’ve given something to the next generation.
And that’s the goal for me.
Simona: I love it. Awesome. Thank you so much for your time, Corey, and for speaking to us on the lead candidate.
Corey: No worries. Thanks for having me.
